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By the waterfall, Robert observes, "I wouldn't rely too much on talens, or construct too many of them. Blithely binding spirits--even for a short time--can have unforseen effects on the environment from which the spirit has been taken." By the waterfall, Arlen nods to the Lord. "I will, indeed, do so. And yes, Sepdet," -- she even sounds less annoyed, now -- "I can talk to spiders. And Nigel, as well. Just so I have your intent right, you wish them for both communication and binding?" By the waterfall, Stormcloud gives his alpha a nudge after a quick glance at the elder Lord. I have words for our pack.

Quiet's ears perk as she hears the noise over the constant thrum of the waterfall. Flattening her ears against the cold spray, she walks over to join the rest of the Garou.

Collin spots Quiet when she arrives, going over to meet her, casting a glance to Sepdet and nodding to her.

Nightflash excuses himself and heads up the rim quickly, looking back to see if the others follow. Nightflash starts along the trail up to the rim of the valley.

Sepdet looks slightly ill. ~Communication. If we end up fighting umbra I may give them a fairly strong rallying cry to help us eliminate the Wyrm that's disrupted their webs, but that's for later. Right now we just need help tracking down the big wyrm-spirits in the city.~

Stormcloud gives a farewell to all, then heads up the common trail. Stormcloud starts along the trail up to the rim of the valley.

Casper follows his alpha without further word. Casper starts along the trail up to the rim of the valley.

Arlen says, "Indeed so. I will suggest that ASAP."

Quiet's ears swivel at the conversation, but she merely bumps Collin with a wet and cold nose.

Sepdet glances up at the Warder, his words not going unnoticed. Then she catches sight of the Ritemistress. Brows drawing together, she sneaks a worried once-over scan of the elder theurge.

Collin eeps as Quiet bumps him. He leans down to murmur to her lowly, gesturing back at Sepdet once as he does. Collin whispers "Sepdet asked me to inform you that there's an Ancestor Spirit of your tribe hanging out in the Umbra around here. Some guy named Jose." Collin whispers "You can get more details from her, but as you can see, she's busy right now. Thought I'd let you know in case you didn't get a chance to talk to her."

Moon Otter focuses his attention on the elder theurge, obviously having some desire to speak with her eventually, but not imposing himself upon the busy theurge directly.

Quiet's body language betrays surprise, momentarily breaking the tension that mutes her expression. She acknowledges Collin with an earflick and turns to give Sepdet a curious look.

Collin grins, then scritches Quiet between the ears. "How are you doing?" he asks, raising his voice.

Quiet's ears flatten at the touch, though only a ripple through her body's muscles remains from the impulse to pull away. My pack is well, she answers obliquely. Slightly apologetic, she noses the ragabash again. Indicating the group, she asks, Why did I stop the howl?

Collin blinks down at Quiet, asking lowly, "You okay?" he glances back towards the others, turning back to her, "We were just talking about the city situation for the most part, getting ideas ironed out, things like that."

Arlen shrugs. "I am... Less than polite tonight. Therefore, I am attempting not to burden others with myself."

Sepdet folds her arms. ~Maybe we were just relieved to see the Ritemistress intact after all the horror stories we've been hearing about the fighting in town. Or maybe we've pondered and planned as much as Garou can stand in the space of one evening. Too much thinking is for Stargazers.~ She pulls her knees into her chest and props her chin on her wrists.

Arlen snorts quietly. "And theurges, apparently. Have you ideas, Oh Ritemistress?" The sarcasm is something resembling fond.

Quiet's body tenses again, and she indicates a brief--almost curt--positive to Collin. I chose not to lead those with me to the Shadow, she says. I could see death waiting there, and we did not find threats on this side as dangerous as the others I have heard. In speaking to me, Heartsfire howled of beasts from the Shadow given form on this side. Though it does not finish our duty, I believe those should be our first target. When Luna shines fuller, we will give chase to their home.

"Sounds like a plan," Arlen says. "Or anyway, the start of one."

Moon Otter waits for a lull in the conversation before addressing Quiet. ~This one is forming up a scouting party to investigate the places the Garou are to attack. It would be a boon if you would ask your packmate, Whitestreak, if he would join. Or,~ the Lord elder suggests, ~this one could seek him out if you knew where he might be found this night?~

Sepdet chews her lip. ~We've been discussing how to find and fight them based on what reports we've gotten. But my first thought was just let the spirits we know do the looking. Got any better ways?~

Quiet sits down, curling her tail beside her right side. Two things are most important there. Finding them, and determining what they are. Finding herself in long conversation, Quiet shifts up into birth form, flowing easily to her feet. "Those two things will lead to a plan. Those given the gift of the predator should be able to help, if Cavall gives them a good description." She frowns, adding, "Unfortunately, the only one I am sure has that gift at this point is Chaser-Never-Rests. The other two I knew that knew it are dead, and Patrick hasn't learned it yet." That last is added with a bit of exasperation. At this lull in the conversation, Moon Otter broaches his request, and the theurge turns toward him.

Long distance to Nemo: Andrea says through the pack link, "Patrick?"

Pack> Patrick says "Yo?" Pack> Andrea says "Moon Otter wants to know if you're up for helping a big scouting mission." Pack> Patrick says "Oo, Heap Big Scouting Mission. What sort of Heap Big Scouting Mission." Pack> Andrea says "To investigate the places to be attacked. You want me to ask more details, arrange a meeting? I assume you're at Silverton?" Pack> Patrick says "Sure, sounds like a plan. Yeah, I'm at home." Pack> Andrea says "You coming out here anytime soon? Somehow I can't see Moon Otter sitting on the couch." Pack> Patrick says "Not tonight; homework. Probably tomorrow night, though."

Andrea's eyes unfocus for a good two or three minutes as she seemingly stares at the Shadow Lord Elder. She then answers, "He's in the city, at our den there. He says he will be at the caern tomorrow and can meet you to learn of the details." Shaking her head, her pupils rapidly shrink and redilate. "You should take someone with you that can tell what kind of spirit it is. Either myself, or another theurge with the gift."

Pack> Andrea says "Passing on the word."

Moon Otter mulls this over. ~Perhaps. Perhaps. We will need to discuss whether or not to include a Garou of a different moon in the mission pack. You would be a good choice--if you are not needed for spiritual matters elsewhere at the time.~

Andrea dips her head slightly at the compliment. "Let me know." Her gesture takes in the theurges present. "We will be able to prepare better if we know what we fight. Different spirits call for different tactics and have different weaknesses."

Sepdet pipes up. ~We've got some basic information on the slashing armored banes on the bridge and near the power plant. The one thing I'm still hazy about is this big worm. Collin said someone called it Thunderwyrm--~ she looks to the child of Uktena sharply at the word-- ~but I'm really not sure how they know, except that it was big. What did it do? It sounds like the thing we saw in the visions, but they were too vague to help much.~

Collin nods to Sepdet at that, "That's what Derrick told me it was. Described it like a giant sandworm out of Dune. ugh."

Pack> Patrick says "And if I can get close enough to /touch/ one of the puppies.... Though I do not want the knowledge getting out that I can do that sort of thing. For obvious reasons."

Moon Otter adds to Andrea's comment. ~And the Lords of Shadow are excellent at finding weaknesses.~ He then lapses back into relative obscurity, merely listening and gathering information.

Pack> Andrea says "That gift could turn you into a pariah, right enough. Especially for those that don't trust you." Pack> Patrick says "Which would be 2/3 of the sept, if it got out that I could do that."

Andrea nods, her face growing grave. "I'd heard a few stories from Stormcrow, and one from Hoteye, but I'm not sure anyone really knows all there is to know about the beasts. They're truly physical, not spiritual at all--a consuming monster. Hoteye's story mentioned it only in passing, as the creature that ate the tunnels for the first Hive." The theurge's face grows dark as she goes on. "I don't know of any weaknesses they have. They're supposed to be incredibly tough, and capable of swallowing Garou whole."

Collin uhms at Andrea, "I think we have proof of that. Derrick told me that's how Velia died."

Arlen's voice is a bit hoarse as she says, "Yes. They do. And it did."

Andrea's answer is a shake of her head, and a tightening of her jawline.

Sepdet rubs her chin. ~Eligio called them the Great Devourers. We were afraid that's what that old bane was years ago. But his stories don't fit this quite. At least, I hope not. He talked about them living like huge overgrown insects...laying eggs and dying after only two weeks, and spawning a whole mass more of 'em a few months later from the clutch.~

Robert shudders slightly. "One can certainly hope not."

Andrea pales slightly, though it's difficult to tell in the dim light. "Surely they would be more common in myth if so."

Moon Otter flicks an ear. That does not seem very likely. If things that great and huge existed only in the physical world and bred so much so quickly, they would have long since layed waste to the entire world.

Arlen, voice of reason. "Perhaps they did," she says, grimly.

Sepdet looks up at the Fury and grimaces. ~Hey now. Let's not give my little brother Despair any more cause to grin.~

Collin snorts at Arlen, "I think we'd see a lot more of them. Quiet's got a point. I mean, it's easy to think there's a lot of them and stuff, but then, it's always a lot easier to think the worst, huh." he grins.

Arlen sighs, and shakes her head. "I do not truly believe that," she admits. "It... Has just been a bad week."

Andrea raises her eyes to look at the other theurge with muted sympathy. "I've heard."

Sepdet's face smooths a little at that, understanding pushing away some of the irritation. ~Indeed.~

Arlen shrugs, and looks down, away from the others for a moment.

Collin looks at Arlen, sympathetically and worriedly. "Gonna be okay?" he asks.

"Once we Gather for him... And for the others..." Arlen trails off. "I will be on the way to being ok, yes."

Sepdet gets to her feet with a nudge at Collin's shoulder. ~I'm going to go check in on Spider,~ she murmurs, ~and the other problems at the Dojan and then turn in for a few hours. You know where to find me.~ She glances around. ~Everyone stay in one piece, right? And keep sharing news. We're only going to get through this mess in town by keeping the whole scattered sept in touch.~

Robert nods. "Communication is key in something like this."

Andrea turns and nods to Sepdet, distracted from her thoughts. Slowly, she turns toward Arlen. Almost reluctantly, she says, "Speaking of news, I hate to pick this timing, but this is the first time I've seen you since I've heard. I have some troubling rumors about your kinfolk, Arlen."

Collin nods to Sepdet again, offering her a grin. "Want me to come with you? I haven't met Spider yet."

Arlen raises her gaze again. "Hm? Which..." She trails off. "We only /have/ the one., right. What's Sally done now?"

Moon Otter glances upwards towards the dwindling moon, contemplative, then spins a brief and bizarre little tale. ~There once was a pack that went to fight a thunderwyrm. All in the pack were brave--perhaps even a bit foolish--for upon spotting this particular thunderwyrm, they all charged it headlong and without thinking. Among the pack, the Silent Strider--unlike those at the sept who lack the excercise found in the more common, wandering members of the tribe--was fastest. He was of the crescent moon. He leapt at the beast and was quickly entangled by the young thunderwyrm and died. Then a Silver Fang came forth and made a very valiant and noble stand--then was accidentally wiggled over by the thunderwyrm and died. Then the Glass Walker used all kinds of clever monkey-tools which did not work. Finally, the Bone Gnawer, the omega of the pack, threw himself down the maw of the great worm. The worm turned a different color, wiggled in a way that was not normal, and then retched the Gnawer back out. Then it died. Even those who eat everything have things they just won't eat.~

Sepdet starts to answer Collin, then stops dead and turns and stares owl-eyed at the not-quite-lupus. Sepdet breaks into a small thin smile. There you are, Oscar-yuf. I haven't seen you in a long time.~ She gives the Lord a quiet salute, then turns and starts away.

Robert looks at Moon Otter and raises an eyebrow. "I trust your scouting abilities are in better shape than your joke-telling."

Arlen, despite her preoccupation, has her attention drawn to the Lord. It stays there, and then she snorts.

Andrea just blinks. Twice. Silently. Finally, the touch of her familiar, wry smile tugs at her lips.

Moon Otter flicks an ear. ~Yes. Yes. Perhaps it is best to leave the humor to the other no moons.~ A brief moment of consideration amends this statement. ~No. It would be best to leave it to the others entirely.~

Sepdet starts along the trail up to the rim of the valley.

Arlen informs the Lord, "Actually, you almost made me laugh. I must commend you. Even if it did not quite fit Robert's standards."

Collin covers his mouth as he yawns, giving his head a shake. "Eesh. Sleepy."

Andrea glances toward Robert, her smile fading. She looks almost apologetic.

Robert nods politely to the others, saying, "Good evening. I need to return to patrols, and snatching some sleep where I can. Good luck with your scouting, and I look forward to hearing the information returned."

Collin looks towards Robert, nodding to him quickly, "Later, Rhya."

Arlen says "Walk in light, sir."

Andrea nods her head respectfully at Robert. "I'll meet you along the wards, before I return to the island."

Robert smiles just a touch, replying, "Gaia guide your way," as he turns and heads out of the caern. Robert heads west, fading somewhat into the steam.

By the steam vents, Robert heads out of the caern toward the southwest.

Andrea watches Robert go, then returns her gaze to Arlen.

Arlen drags her attention off of the Lord. "Sally," she reminds Quiet.

Collin looks between Arlen and Andrea, attention caught by the mention of the Kin again.

Andrea nods and begins. "Some time ago, one of my kin--Dana--brought word from her group that Sally had been buying silver weapons. I passed that on to your tribe, and I heard no more about it, so I assumed it had been dealt with. There is an assumed kinfolk." Here Andrea makes a face at the word assumed, and goes on. "Louisa has done some actions that has made our tribe honor-bound to take responsibility for him, if he turns out to be clean of influences that could make him immune to the Delirium without our blood in his line. The crisis has delayed our visit to him, but we are to go this week if we can. I only bring this up because it is how I found out new information about Sally, and a potential problem among the kin."

Moon Otter perks his ears slightly at what sounds like the potential culling of humans, displaying great interest.

Arlen evidently hadn't heard about the silver. "Huh. If the problem is Sally being something of a drunken ass, I'm... trying to deal with that."

Andrea's lips thin to a grim line as she continues. "This assumed kinfolk has fallen in with Sally, but the problem spreads wider than him, and it's not just her drinking. She apparently has been telling kinfolk that the Garou are evil monsters, and attempting to turn them against us. Alexandra has reported some consequential problems with the Silent Strider kinfolk."

Collin asks Andrea, "Do you mean Vicki?"

Andrea turns to Collin. "They mentioned her by name, though they said the problem was through multiple kinfolk."

Collin says, "I saw Vicki today. She really didn't seem to have any problem with me, so I'm not sure she's suffering entirely. But I haven't seen Sally either, at all."

Arlen sighs. "The problem, of course, is that through some of her interactions with multiple Garou, including high rage Garou, Sally has... Had bad experiences. But I shall see if..." Arlen says "Perhaps we can enable someone else to be a /unifying/ force, as opposed to a divisive one."

The traces of a smile touch Andrea's lips. "If such a personality among the kinfolk can be found, I'm for it. I would trust the eldest of my kinfolk to try, but she is just seeming to be comfortable. It may strain that relationship to ask so much so soon." Andrea shakes her head. "One way or another, poison of this nature should be stopped. Even if we can risk her speaking in such a way, because we don't think the other kinfolk will believe her, what might she do when she sees she's failed there? She knows too much. She must be either saved or stopped."

Moon Otter cocks his head slightly to one side, looking less interested in culling humans that are kinfolk. Well, slightly less interested. ~Perhaps it would be best if a Garou respected by the kin, who was skilled in creating good relations, and who was very mild-tempered, were to associate with them regularly the kin would see us as less of a threat and more as...~ He searches for the correct words. ~Watchful guardians. Yes. Then this would eliminate much of the problems. Failing that,~ the Shadow Lord comments, ~those who are still a problem and a danger to all can be culled.~

Arlen says, "I'll aim to avoid that eventuality, certainly. I do think that a mild temepered Garou would aid matters considerably, yes. I... Do not know if I can talk to Sally directly, since part of her wariness in fact has to do with my pack and I, but I shall speak with Diana."

Collin says, "I'd try to help...but I'm really not sure how well I know the Kin I know, and I was on pretty good terms with Sally. We hung out a lot together, and now she's kicked me out and won't even talk to me, so it's, like... I'm not sure she's gonna be willing to listen to anyone, mild tempoered or not. I'll just try and talk to Vicki again."

You say "Perhaps a congenial Garou would aid with the other kinfolk, if Sally is a lost cause."

Collin shakes his head, "I'm not willing to say she's a lost cause yet, no way. But I'm gonan go to Vicki. I just *asked* her what was up with the Kinfolk, at all, and she said 'nothing'. So."

"I am unwilling to declare Sally a lost cause, but certainly, one would aid with other Kin." Arlen sighs faintly. "We have so many here that are new to Kinship. It is difficult."

Collin rights, "And having someone run along and spit out shit.. it's a lot easier to believe that w're bad guys then it is good, in some ways, especially when you're new to this. Admittedly, we're pretty frightening when it comes down to it, huh?" he grins. "Of course, some of us are super likeable studs of awesome power, like me."

Moon Otter interjects a second time, after Collin's comment, towards Arlen and Quiet. ~The Garou working with the kin should be one that they can respect, but not fear.~

Arlen glances at Collin, and back to Moon Otter. "Rather."

Collin nods his head in agreement with Moon Otter at that. "Yeah."

Andrea looks down at the Shadow Lord with a nod. Asking the group at large, she inquires, "Any suggestions?"

Moon Otter mulls over a few thoughts. ~The Shadow Lords have a kinfolk who runs a place in the scab that gives aid to the apes within it. Perhaps this might make a good gathering place, or common point of contact, for the kinfolk to meet. It also gives the impression that Gaia's Chosen wish to do good things rather than bad.~

Collin looks curiously at Moon Otter, "Mind me asking who and what place?"

Arlen says, "Hrm. Casper, actually, might be reasonable. Or Merria. Or..." She trails off. "I thought the intent was to present sane Garou?"

Andrea glances between the speakers, listening.

Moon Otter adds, for Arlen's benefit, ~A common ground for meeting would make this Garou's task easier.~

There goes that lightbulb. "Something of a Kinfolk safehouse. Yes," Arlen agrees, "That would make sense."

Collin nods his head, "Yeah. That does, actually. I like that idea. And we can hope they'll start making use of it too." he grins.

Moon Otter huffs agreement as Arlen picks things up. ~And it would give the kin a common goal as well.~

Andrea offers, "A city Garou would be better than a woods-packed one, in general. Just for availability." A light chuckle. "My kinfolk are willing to drive 30 miles and walk to a lake in emergencies, but most people are not."

Arlen says "Well. Giving them... Tasks to do that would aid in the fight, that would be a goal as well, but we can't have everything."

Andrea's expression sobers as she turns to Arlen. "We should give nothing more to them until we know we can trust them."

Moon Otter huffs agreement with the CoGgie. There must be limits to their knowledge, yes. And it would be best to determine if there are vipers in the nest before giving them any more knowledge than they already possess.

Arlen considers Andrea for a moment. "I do not know if I agree that we should give nothing to them. Especially since part of the problem is a neglect issue. But what we do give them must be carefully monitored."

Collin mmns quietly. "Yeah. But let's try not to start distrusting them so much as to create more of the problem that's here now. I mean, if we stop trusting them and get suspicous of their motives all the time, it's gonna show, and it's gonna come back to haunt us hard. Bleah."

Leave it to the Shadow Lord to come up with this idea. ~Perhaps we could have one of our trusted kin become an informant--in case there are problems that arise or questionable kinfolk?~

Andrea raises one shoulder in a shrug. "The sword that turns in the hand bites the deepest."

Arlen says "Precisely, Collin. And... I would not object to an individual who would... Be a mentor, who could tell us of progress. An informer, if you will."

Andrea considers, then says musingly, "Perhaps a philodox with the gift of truth would be the wisest."

Collin yeahs. "That might be the best.."

Arlen says, experimentally, "Louisa?"

Collin grins, "Lou's pretty cool. She's got a level head. I could see her doing that."

Andrea grimaces, again. "If not for her recent experience, she would have been my first choice. I will speak to Nightflash and see his judgement, and watch how Tom reacts to her presence."

Moon Otter offers, ~Perhaps we should look instead towards those with even calmer tempers. A crescent moon or a no moon.~

An idea brightens Andrea's expression. "When Peter Follen came to this sept, before he joined my tribe, he gave a fetish for chiminage. It allowed the bearer to tell the truth. Perhaps a calmer moon could have the honor of bearing that fetish."

Arlen says, "Interesting fetish, that. Kristine, perhaps?"

Moon Otter hurrs in agreement. That would be an excellent arrangement, yes.

Andrea nods. "Perhaps. Maybe those that feel responsible for kinfolk should meet and select someone." Glancing from side to side, she says, "Spread the word. This is a time of war, but we must secure our own lines as well."

By the steam vents, Kit comes into the caern from the southwest. By the steam vents, With a loud sigh, the earth seems to settle momentarily and the steam clouds dissipate somewhat.

Arlen says, "Yes." Glancing at the steam, she says, "And meanwhile, I should get back to the City. Perhaps sleep in my own bed. There's a concept."

Moon Otter shakes his coat out, stretching briefly. This one will get in touch with the Shadow Lord kin to make arrangements.

Arlen says, before she shifts down, "And I... Will attempt to talk to Sally."

Andrea nods again, at both. Excusing herself, she offers Collin a faint smile in farewell. The theurge disappears in the same direction that Robert took.

Arlen starts along the trail up to the rim of the valley.

Collin nods to Andrea, grinning at her, "Take care. I need to get going myself. Get some rest."

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